163 calls later

‍I was going through my notebook and calendar when I realized something surprising: since I started this project, I’ve had about 163 calls with health and wellness professionals like you.

That’s 163 conversations.
Roughly 130 hours of listening.

And I want to share this not because of the number itself, but because of what it means: listening.

“Joe, what do I do? Why don’t they buy from me?”
That’s a question I hear often:
“Joe, what do I do? Why don’t they buy? Why don’t they pay attention?”

And my answer is usually the same: probably because you haven’t had the chance to listen to 163 people around one specific need.

Sure, you may have given more than 2,714 hours of online sessions, retreats, trainings, or coaching. But I’d bet those hours were on different topics, with different people, and very diverse needs.

Now imagine what it means to hear the same problem, from different perspectives, 163 times.

Of course patterns show up.
Of course phrases repeat.
Of course you start noticing things that need solving again and again for many people.

The step most people skip

We all want to serve more people:

• Fill a retreat or event.
• Get the first 500 users for a health app.
• Sell a group program or membership.

And that’s fine. That’s the dream for many.
But before thinking about scaling and big numbers, my recommendation is always the same: define who you want to listen to, and then do everything you can to talk to those people.

What did I do? Ads. Good ads, leading to a video, to a booking, to a call. No filters, no complex structures. “Does this make sense to you? Let’s talk.” Period.

And then they show up, and you talk to them.
Not always to sell.
Not always to convince.
Yes, I did sell while listening—but I also recognized this:

Even if it wasn’t the right person because of money or timing, I still made the most of it to take notes, listen, understand, and discover fears and phrases.

Listening with the intention to solve

It’s not the same to listen in order to give an immediate solution in a 1:1 session as it is to listen with the intention of designing something that can serve hundreds or thousands.

In a 1:1 session, your attention is on that person. You respond to their specific need.
When you listen with the intention to design, your attention is on the patterns, the common points, the possibilities for a broader solution.

It’s a different kind of listening. More patient. More strategic. More creative.

The emotional work that isn’t scalable

Here’s the part almost no one wants to hear:
Before the scalable comes the unscalable.

Listening.
Taking notes.
Asking questions.
Making an offer.
Being rejected.
Being ignored.

Trying again and testing.
Testing something small.
Giving it time to breathe.
Listening again.

And I’m sorry—I wish I could tell you otherwise, but that’s the emotional work that can’t be automated, accelerated, or outsourced to AI or a college intern.

Many want to win tomorrow and become millionaires in a few weeks. But that’s far from realistic. First comes the invisible, patient, and consistent work that allows you to truly understand the people you want to serve.

Designing after listening

Order matters.
You listen.
You test.
You bring what you heard to life.
You let it run.
You listen again.
You adjust.
Then yes—you design.

And when you design from there, the result is more solid, more real, and more connected to what people truly need.

What I learned in 130 hours of listening

Listening to the same problems so many times has made it clear to me:

• Deep doubts don’t change as quickly as we think.
• Professionals don’t lack knowledge—they lack clarity on how to bring it into the digital world.
• Fears are almost universal: fear of choosing wrong, fear of losing money, fear of not being enough.
• People aren’t looking for “one more technique”; they’re looking for someone who understands what they feel and shows them a viable path.
  

I didn’t learn this by guessing. I learned it by listening.

Listening brings projects to life

Each conversation is like planting a seed.
At first, it doesn’t look like much. Just another call. Another hour on your calendar.

But over time, those seeds turn into a map.
A map of patterns, real needs, and possible paths.
And that map becomes the foundation of your project.

All this listening is becoming the foundation of mine.

Scaling comes later

Yes, of course you can scale later.
You can automate, run ads, create a course, design an app.
But if you do it without listening first, frustration is likely.

Because building on assumptions is like building a house on sand.
Scaling comes later. And when it comes, it comes stronger, more stable, more connected.

Conclusion: the patience of listening

My invitation is simple:
👉 Before thinking about scaling, dedicate time to listening.
👉 Do the emotional work that cannot be rushed.
👉 Bring your project to life with hours of conversations, notes, and tests.

Because what you want to build deserves solid foundations.And those foundations are made with patience, focus, and above all—with listening.